“The people who say producing is easy, unfortunately, aren’t doing nearly as much as they need to do.” Angela Sun filled our call with laughter. Her words felt especially validating to hear as they came from someone whose career I very much look up to. She spoke to the heart of what theatre producers can do: shape the work conditions of the industry itself. “The job itself is a hard one to hold, and I wanted to have that power to be able to make changes.”

When I was 20 years old, I didn’t understand the weight and responsibility of theatre producing. I was privileged enough to be mentored by Michelle Rolfe of Glasgow’s Birds of Paradise Theatre. Michelle was the first mentor I ever had in the world of theatre producing. At 20 years old, as a Disabled, Neurodiverse artist, I never realised how valuable it would be to start my journey being mentored by someone from a specifically Disabled theatre company, from a specifically Disabled lens.

At 20 years old, I also wish I knew how valuable it was to be mentored by someone who made a point to remind me that I am indeed a Disabled, Neurodiverse artist, and therefore am always coming at this work from a Disabled, Neurodiverse perspective. That the limits to my capacity are undeniable and that I have to make sure I’m prioritizing myself; that I have to factor in my needs within my artistic process. This was, at the time, a hard thing to hear. Especially as someone who never wanted my disability to impact or “get in the way” of my art, even if it came at a personal expense. It’s hard to admit it, but arriving at feelings of burnout has become a common cycle for me, even though I love, love, love theatre. Theatre is the thing that pulled me out of many of the hardest moments of my Tourette’s Syndrome, and theatre is where I’ve found my closest friends and community. 

Now, a few years later, as I continue to integrate myself in different facets of this industry, I am grateful for this reminder from Michelle. Neurodiversity is always going to be part of my artistic practice. Every part. It is what will always make me a more understanding, flexible, and supple producer, and it’s how I’ll grow into myself as both an artist and as a person.

As Angela says, “Artist-producer training, especially that you get at Generator, trains you and gives you the skills to put you in positions of power so you can change everything that you effect.” This rings true for me. Being part of Generator’s Artist Producer Lab (APL) program gave me permission to truly shape this industry the way I want to see it. I can lead with the values I want to establish, I can put really driven artists together on a team, I can create my own best practices for how to work with others - and I can do all that as a Neurodiverse person. I am uniquely positioned to use the creative agency I have as a producer to create more accessible spaces for myself and others. 

When I was lucky enough to be chosen to be part of Generator’s APL program and given the opportunity to conduct a research project about change in the performing arts sector, I wanted to gather words of advice and experiences from other Disabled, MAD, and/or Neurodiverse artist producers who have navigated their own challenges while establishing themselves within their respective careers. I was lucky enough to chat with Angela Sun (Independent Producer; Community Engagement Manager, Theatre Passe Muraille, Toronto), Mandy E. MacLean (Artistic & Access Producer, Crossroads Theatre; Accessibility Producer, SummerWorks, Toronto), Karthy Chin (Independent Producer), and Simon Jay (Neurodiverse Review, Edinburgh UK).

The nuance of Neurodiverse producing as a person of colour

Accessibility is layered, and while folks often think of ways to accommodate visible disabilities (ramps, door buttons, etc.), people don't often consider invisible disabilities, mental health, and Neurodiversity. Similarly, many conversations in the theatre industry about accessibility focus solely on access for audiences, and not for artists and other arts workers.“The sticky part of access is asking yourself the question “how do I genuinely make people feel included and cared for,” Angela said to me. How do we care for the people we are hiring to create art together? She finds that there are often huge gaps in supporting those with invisible disabilities, mental health, and Neurodiversity. These gaps become more pronounced when considering the intersections of access with cultural and racial diversity.

Karthy Chin, an independent producer whose career has included multiple producer roles at large performing arts institutions, also spoke of this dynamic. She noted how difficult it can be for a Neurodiverse producer to advocate for their own needs when already working within a predominantly white institution (PWI) as a person of colour. She says, “White supremacy is so embedded in terms of how we operate, and the society we live in. Fundamentally, our entire theatre ecology is based in capitalism and we receive government money in order to survive.” She has had to choose her battles depending on her capacity and the job specifically.  

“It’s complicated because there are situations where you feel like your identity as a MAD or a Neurodiverse person is in conflict with your identity as a person of colour. We saw that during the BAFTA telecast,” Angela continued, referring to the heavily debated incident where the white producer of the 2026 film “I Swear”, who has Tourette’s syndrome, shouted a racial slur from the audience due to a copralalic tic. As an artist with Tourette Syndrome, and also as an artist of Caribbean & South Asian diasporic descent, I immediately understood Angela’s observation. “When you’re a POC who is Neurodiverse, you feel like you're sort of in the middle of these two issues. Sometimes you receive ableism from folks who are in the same community, other times you see people who understand you on a Neurodivergence level but who say things that are microaggression upon microaggression about race.” 

This resonates with my experience, from theatre school to my current reality working in the arts. I find when I’m working with white MAD/Neurodiverse artists that I am often put in positions where I have to advocate on behalf of racialized communities, or be the barometer on if something is offensive or not. Fortunately when I work with racialized people, they are usually also MAD or Neurodiverse. Working with other BIPOC Neurodiverse people provides a baseline of understanding, and a welcome flexibility in our work processes (around expectations, timeline, how we gauge progress etc). While I don’t have the perfect solution to navigating this intersection of experiences right now, I am glad that I at least find fulfillment when working with other Neurodiverse artists of colour. 

Ways to make producing more accessible for Neurodiverse creators. – 

The biggest takeaway from my conversation with Angela was around how to ensure you are holistically supported in your work, and that those supports might have to come from your employer but also elsewhere. She emphasized that arts organizations still have a duty and responsibility to provide more care and access for arts workers, but it is also important for all arts workers to reflect internally upon what their access needs are in a creative space and your capacity to take care of others depends on having your own care needs met.

“For the person who is navigating the workspace as a Neurodiverse MAD person, you do have to do a lot of self reflection and work with whatever supports are around you, whether that's therapy or friends and family and peer support, to figure out, “What do [I] actually need at work?” What do you like working on? How do you handle working on stuff that you do not like to do? What do you actually need in your environment? And [how] to be really truthful with yourself.”

Angela made sure to note that recommending that one seeks support for work access outside of work (i.e. through counsel from friends and family) might be a controversial take, given that workplaces must do better to meet workers’ accessibility requirements, but nevertheless, it is a realistic one. 

The importance of working relationships in both independent and institutional producing

One of my biggest curiosities about Neurodiverse producing is how to navigate the differences between producing in an independent context, where one might have more artistic agency and be more able to build a values-aligned team, versus producing in an institution, where there is already an established team and work culture and the producer may have less agency.  Angela believes “It’s easier as an independent producer. You choose your team, and you work with people you already have a connection with…. [It’s best to work with people who have] similar values to you.”

Mandy E. MacLean identifies as MAD and non-visibly Disabled, and primarily works with Neurodiverse, Disabled, and fellow MAD & non-visibly Disabled artists at Crossroads Theatre and Summerworks Festival, spoke about the importance of transparency and clarity in working relationships and how that is useful in institutional producing contexts. At the beginning of every working relationship, Mandy shares her Access Rider, a detailed document that she shares with everyone she engages with. She feels the Access Riders offer clear structure to convey how she works to others, and often, she finds “serves as an invitation for others to enter into an accessible structure…. I use [access riders] as a conversation starter about how folks want to work…. It allows me to become clear and ask other people in the process those questions too.” 

Mandy’s insights point to how urgency culture in institutional producing can be a barrier to access. She notes,“Time is a construct and everything is flexible as long as it’s communicated.” 

Establishing a working relationship first was my biggest takeaway from Mandy. “It boils down to – this is how I work and here are my value statements. How do you work?”, as she felt many artists don’t spend enough time at the beginning of a process discussing how they will work, and instead starting with “what are we going to work on”. Being values-led, rather than specifically focusing on the “access” points in the show is where every fruitful process should start– “because if not, it can easily tip into becoming an add-on”.

Challenges as a Neurodiverse producer

“Before I was diagnosed, I didn’t understand why I made it so hard on myself, producing work, because even now it’s weird, I go by really odd markers.” Simon Jay, an Edinburgh-based playwright & producer, and Editor of the Neurodiverse Review, spoke to me about the invisible social aspects of theatre producing– the blurry, unwritten space between personal and professional expectations. Simon spoke about how this dynamic is particularly challenging for him as an autistic person.

“Navigating the social aspects, I find really really hard.” Simon pointed out how a lot of one’s professional reputation is based on hearsay and gossip. Early on in his career in London, often others would make hiring decisions on his behalf, based on their own subjective social opinions, which often resulted in him not being happy with the makeup of the teams. I’ve always found the same difficulty, finding it hard to know whose advice to listen to. I asked Simon how he’s navigated that. His take is that ultimately, “they have to be good at the job. It’s hard because people have opinions, and they might not be accurate. Like if this person says “don’t work with this director”, they may not actually be right. You have to learn to trust your own instincts and what you think is good. It’s very hard.”

Simon explained that one way he navigates situations like this is to be direct, constructive, and analytical.   He approaches anecdotal tips from artists about other artists as data collection, looking for a consensus; but usually, there isn’t one. “The answer from everyone [is] different.” So, in the absence of clarity from others’ opinions, he tries to decide based on how a candidate makes him feel, which he concedes “is probably not the right way of doing things, [even if] she made me feel nice on the phone!” This Neurotypical approach to engaging artistic collaborators is an inexact science, and one that consistently reminds me of my own limitations as a Neurodiverse early career artist navigating this shindig. Simon agrees, calling it“the social side, the invisible side of producing” which has “nothing to do with the actual work.” He notes: “I’ve always struggled with how much is predicated on people liking each other. Vibes. And that’s very much how networking works, how people get jobs, and I find that like an alien language.” 

Ah yes, the social contract that I as a Neurodiverse person feel like I wasn’t ever given, which everyone else somehow knows how to abide by. This has always caused me anxiety, leaving me wondering if I’m approaching the social elements of this industry at all correctly, often getting things wrong, leading to unintentional misunderstandings.

So, I asked Simon what his biggest anxieties were, working in theatre, an industry where practices are so heavily based on reputation and vibes.“I think the hardest learning curve is you’re selling yourself all the time. You’re a product, especially if you're trying to get work.” This struck me as well. Understanding yourself as a product grounds what we do in this really grimy capitalism that erases the human and shifts us into the “time is money” mentality. It’s hard to feel like you’re at the mercy of people above you, especially when the standard hiring practices are informal and geared toward Neurotypical sensibilities, and in that way, an ableist barrier for us Neurodiverse arts workers. I often feel like there's little room for social mistakes, which leads to the feeling that I am wasting the time of those in power. “I have a very analytical, realistic approach, and a dispassionate view about my work, what’s worked well and what hasn’t. But other people aren’t like that, and can sell themselves very well, saying ‘I’ve worked on this and that and that!’ [But I have come to] realise that I do have some talent and some success…. In the past, I made myself very small in creative spaces, and felt very inadequate. I feel now, when I’m in a room, I know I’ve done good work and that I’m worthy of being in the room”. Simon concluded that this kind of growth is not linear, but what helps most is being open and vulnerable, and realising other creatives feel this way too. His words help to remind me that this kind of growth is really hard, but one is always a stronger and richer artist at the end of it.

Unique competencies/magic that only Neurodiverse Creators have

I’ve additionally found it hard to navigate the social elements of this practice, and have been afraid of hurting others’ feelings, or feeling a dissonance in understanding with other artists. Angela helped me reframe this,  suggesting we look at this as a larger conversation around unclear interpersonal communication, in our society, and especially in our artistic community. She is speaking about not actual harm, like “instances of racism, sexual harassment, or sexual assault”, but rather snap judgements:“Sometimes people in the industry have this feud for years that came from one of them not smiling at the other on an opening night. And there’s quite a lot of situations I hear from people, saying “oh, I don’t know how I feel about that person” and you ask them why and they say “well I think they snubbed me during a show”, and while that may be true, you don’t know what’s going on in that person's day.” 

If I had to boil down the thesis of what I think will always set us apart as Neurodiverse creators, it’s this facility for empathy. Angela cited a monologue she wrote early on for a MAD artist collective: “Think of the person that annoys you the most. I want you to book a 3 hour dinner with them, and [at] that dinner ask them about their dreams, their desires…. At the end of that dinner, ask yourself if your opinion about them has changed.”

Angela wishes for our community to be better able to handle conflict: “I think in order for our industry and our society at large to be fully inclusive of Neurodiversity, we need to examine our own level of tolerance towards non-violent, non-racist behaviours…. Even the most progressive people have things that annoy them about other people [like] I don’t think this person should’ve spoken this loudly, or laughed, or taken up space in this way.’, While having boundaries is important, I think we all need to have a very real evaluation of what is a need for a space to be safe versus what is a personal preference.”

Conclusion

My hope is that this piece, as well as the testimonies within it, can support other Neurodiverse producers to know that we aren’t alone. I’ve learned that coming to theatre producing from a Neurodiverse perspective, there are a number of unavoidable, inherent differences that we are all constantly navigating. Our Neurodiversity can allow us a different angle into those differences. We can work with different intentions, developing workspaces and working cultures that are less ambiguous, more care oriented, and overall more flexible and understanding to the differences of everyone around us, Neurodiverse or not. 

It has been a beautiful journey of “finding my groove” as an Artist Producer, especially from where I started at 20 years old. Especially after crafting this piece, I’ve walked away with such a richer understanding of knowing that there is an abundance of support and resources out there to help emerging Neurodiverse producers. I believe that Neurodiverse producing will support the longevity of theatre creation, ensuring we are building a more mindful, adaptible, and understanding theatre practice overall.